Saturday, February 09, 2008

Punished


Giants over Pats? Quintana over Williams? Man. All I can say is watch your back Kelly Pavlik, because something freaky-deeky is in the air out there.

People, as my Williams/Quintana prognostification would indicate (so much for my ridiculous swami run), I did not see this coming for the life of me. I wouldn't put it in the same category of upset as last week's Super Bowl shocker, but it's not too far out of that stratosphere either. I mean, 8-1 is an upset of note, no doubt.

And now all of us boxing pundits and fans are left shaking our heads, because this was not your typical "exposure" type of upset, the type of upset that Carlos Quintana handed out to the Love Child Joel Julio two summers ago - young highly-regarded up-and-comer who hasn't fought anyone of substance gets exposed by a savvy veteran who has more left on the fastball than anyone realized.

No, this fight isn't in that league for one very simple reason - in Paul Williams' last outing he beat Antonio Freakin Margarito, beat him cleanly in what to my mind was a brilliant all-around performance. Most people rate Margarito amongst the class of the welterweight division, a division that right now is the class of boxing. In the winter of '06 and early in '07, much was made in the sweet science rumor mills that King Floyd himself was ducking Margarito, that Bob Arum had offered Floyd $8 million to fight the Mexican and Floyd had passed. Margarito himself passed on a fight with Miguel Cotto last summer, and the consensus opinion on that move was that he was hoping to build his star so he could make more money in that and other mega-bouts to come (obviously that didn't work out too well for him). Now Margarito has a rematch with Kermit Cintron in April on the Cotto/Gomez undercard, and if he and Cotto both win that night, it seems very likely that they will meet in a big fight this summer. Yesterday morning, I think most of us boxing fans would have said that a Cotto/Margarito fight would be a highly competitive affair, a hell of a fight.

You see where I'm going with this? In that Cotto absolutely pulverized Quintana in December of '06, and now Quintana has pantsed Williams, who himself handled Margarito... how exactly are we supposed to gauge the whole 147 scene? On my scorecard last night, I had Quintana winning 115-113, and it wasn't nearly that close because the seven rounds I had Quintana winning, he destroyed Williams, whereas the five rounds I gave Williams were very close, low-output rounds that I gave him largely because of Quintana's exhausted inactivity. Overall, Williams looked slow, inaccurate, awkward, tremendously easy to hit, and his punches, never known as man-wreckers in the first place, were woefully ineffectual.

I ask you - is this the same man that convincingly beat Antonio Margarito last July? What the hell is going on here?

Let me offer two theories:
  • At welterweight right now there are two supremely great fighters - Floyd and Cotto. A step below those two you have Sugar Shane, and below him you have everyone else, Margarito, Williams, Cintron, Judah, even Quintana, all in a distant third-place tie and really not that far removed from each other, such on that on any given night any one of them might beat another if they're feeling it. To prove this theory, the true litmus test would be Quintana/Margarito. If Quintana gave Margarito a battle, we would know all we needed to know. If he didn't, we could draw either of these two conclusions - Margarito was way off his game against Williams while Williams fought the bout of his life, or Williams was in similarly bad shape last night while Quintana was at his best.
  • During the telecast, I only heard Harold Lederman allude in passing to a fact that for me has huge implications for Williams' showing. His official weight was 146 1/2, and he fought last night at 164. I have asked myself before with Williams how long he could maintain his freakish 6'1"-147 stature, and now I wonder if that hourglass hasn't run out on him. He certainly had the slow, zipless, plodding aspect last night that often characterizes fighters who have cut weight dramatically. And if he's putting on close to 18 pounds in a day, it's not just cause he's pulling an all-nighter at Bob's Big Boy. A lot of that is water, and wringing yourself dry quite literally drains you. What you lose you can't put back in one night. I'm sure his handlers want to keep him at 147 because they figure, hey, guy's got very little power at this weight, how will he fare if he moves up? Then again, if making the weight is sapping all his strength, maybe he gets some of that pop back if he doesn't have to cut that last seven pounds.
Final analysis - hats off to Carlos Quintana. He was motivated and undaunted and he looked like a world-beater in there. I'm sure he earned himself a big payday sometime soon - I have to believe there are lot of big-name 147's who will line up around the block to fight him now, and maybe he'll surprise one of those cocky bastards as well. I did have to laugh, though, at the look on Quintana's face when Kellerman brought up a potential Cotto rematch - "dah... maybe not." Kellerman himself said it best later on - MAN does Cotto come out of this looking huge. Here we were all thinking 147 was a packed division full of great potential match-ups and now it's looking more like men's tennis circa 1980. There's Borg and McEnroe... and then a bunch of Roscoe Tanners.

(I'm not going to waste too much cyberspace on Andre Berto's win over Michel Trabant. It was a non-fight, plain and simple. Trabant shouldn't have been anywhere near that ring. I will say this, however - I was on the whole unimpressed with Berto last night. He did nice work battering Trabant and finding his holes through the ear-muff defense, but Trabant also was bringing some of the laziest, punk-assenest one-twos I've ever seen at this level of boxing, and Berto was clueless on how to counter him. I like Berto, I really do, but when he does make the big step up, I'm afraid he gonna get a beatdown. Like in, say, a bout with Zab? Man, I think Zab handles Berto without a lot of trouble right now.)

14 Comments:

Anonymous Trickster said...

Haven't seen the fight (gotta save my "night-session" for next week *G*), but man I didn't believe somenone could decision Williams. Did he throw those 100 punches a round like against Margarito?

I tend to agree that this weight drain has to affect him... and right so I say. Just not natural to have a top athlet at 6,1 going down to 147.. I mean those guys are no Ski jumpers, they should be fighting not flying.

There has to be a better method than weighting in a day before a fight.

Anyway... props to Quintana.. and so we can say that the winner of Margarito-Cotto is the real Floyd-Challenger, that atleast is a good thing.

3:56 AM  
Blogger Kopper said...

I thought Williams' hamming it up for the cameras in his locker room as well as during his entry into the ring reminded me of Apollo Creed's fateful fight vs. Ivan Drago.... Also Large, can you explain Lederman's scoring of the fight? Is he on some HBO agenda? or, do you see someone actually legitimately scoring it 115-113 Williams?

4:49 AM  
Blogger Luke the Duke said...

Ledermaa was not watching the same fight we were. It was like he was "rooting" for Williams.

He did look real drained, he was wiffing on punches and his "power" shots were more jabs and slaps.

8:06 AM  
Blogger Large said...

I have had my doubts about Lederman on a couple of occasions lately, but on the HBO front you have to hand it to both Kellerman and Lamps, who were not seeing it Williams' way at all.

I thought it could have been called a draw. I had it 6-4 after ten, with Williams winning rounds 4, 6, 7 and 8, and then I also gave him the last round even though he didn't do that much because Quintana did less. Lederman gave Williams the 11th, which I disagreed with, but wasn't absurdly out of the realm of possibility, because it was another one of those exhuasted, sloppy rounds in which Williams was more active. But I don't think anyone had a beef with the decision at all - Williams seemed to know he'd been soundly beaten and he certainly looked the part.

I have to say, Kopper, I thought Williams looked ill getting his hands taped with those Gucci shades on. And Trickster, yeah, Margarito-Cotto winner fights Floyd, but let's not forget, Margarito got schooled by the dude who got schooled last night. I'm actually hoping this all ups the ante of pressure on Floyd to fight Cotto, because never has it seemed like such an obvious and imperative bout.

9:48 AM  
Anonymous pavlik_fan said...

Does Lamps refer to Lampley? Papa and Lennox rounded out the BAD team last night. Papa saw it for El Indio, Lennox was more on the fence. I thought Kellerman had it dead to rights. I normally agree with Lederman-- he was way off.

A consolation for Williamsis that if Cintron drops to Margarito, a fight with Paul could be a good next step for Kermit.

One thing we can all agree on: Miguel Cotto is amazing. He needs to fight PBF.

Any thoughts on the countdown show for Pavlik-Taylor II?

10:51 AM  
Blogger Luke the Duke said...

I thought the countdown was good. They are really playing up the poor whiteboy angle. Taylor has the right attitude, should be a great fight.

11:01 AM  
Blogger Large said...

Yes yes, Pavlik Fan, you're right, I meant (I love it when you call me) Bob Papa and not Lampley. I must say, I generally discount anything Lennox says other than for pure entertainment factor.

I thought the Countdown show was a little weak. I don't think they had much of a story to tell honestly. Neither Jermain or Kelly is tremendously good television. The funniest moment for me was Pavlik saying, "you know I could go get a bunch of silk pajamas and sheets and blankets, but that's not me." I know he meant silk sheets and blankets, but the way he said it, accompanied by the shot of him lying on the couch, made it seem like he meant any sheets and blankets. Like - "sheets? blankets? that crap is for fancy people."

My overall feeling from the show was that Pavlik is feeling more pressure than ever before and Jermain is deeply uncertain about his chances in this fight.

12:01 PM  
Anonymous Trickster said...

@Cotto-Margarito:

Yeah sure, Cotto will eventually win, but man it will be fun as long as ist lasts.


Talking bout the countdown, any news on why they didn't make a 24/7 Large? I mean, you are right, they are not Mayweather Sr. when it comes to TV presence, but I still think Pavlik has unbelievable star-potential. A humble, white knockout-artist in a classic division? C'mon he's your PVP-Star for years to come, why not market him more?

12:44 PM  
Blogger Large said...

Trickster - it's the turn around time, I think, following the Floyd/Hatton 24/7. That 24/7 shit is an insane production ordeal for them, takes three or four months of lead time just to have it up and running. They just couldn't gear up the team fast enough following the last one.

1:20 PM  
Anonymous Matt, your friendly Bulls Blogger said...

Interestingly enough, there was talk in the last few months of matching Berto up with Quintana. I'm guessing the Berto camp may want to hold off on that now.

2:05 PM  
Blogger El Mero Mero said...

Finally got to watch the fights on the Tivo. Must say that I'm sorely disappointed...my hopes of great fights at 147 for a year until PBF finally decides to fight Cotto seem to be dashed.

Also, I'm standing in a wedding on Saturday, so I was hoping for a great night of fights to make me forget the fact that I'm missing Pavlik-Taylor II. That didn't happen. Does anyone know if you can Tivo a PPV?

7:56 PM  
Blogger yonatan said...

fuckin' quintana, that creep can roll man.

10:28 PM  
Blogger Joaquin "The Rooster" Ochoa said...

Like I said, Quintana is a lock.

6:43 AM  
Blogger Unsilent Majority said...

The idea of Judah/Berto makes me a little giddy.

12:15 PM  

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