No Mas Interview - Kurt Emhoff
I was surprised by the recent news that Oscar De La Hoya was planning a tune-up fight for May before his now seemingly certain rematch with Floyd in September. But when I heard the three potential opponents he was considering - Stevie Forbes, Paulie Malignaggi and Dmitriy Salita - I was completely blown away. Going to fights in New York, I've been following both Malignaggi and Salita for years, and I still to this day count Salita's march into the ring with the rapping Matisyahu for his fight with Shawn Gallegos to be the greatest ring entrance I've ever seen.
If you're unfamiliar with Salita, he's a Ukrainian-born fighter who moved to Brooklyn when he was nine and learned the fight game under the tutelage of local legend Jimmy O'Pharrow at the Starrett City Boxing Club. Dmitriy is also an observant Orthodox Jew, which has brought him a lot of attention and a passionate fan base in the city. His story is remarkable, and it's told in Jason Hutt's new documentary, Orthodox Stance, which has its last showing at the Jewish Film Festival in New York tonight and then opens in the city starting Friday.
The first person I thought of when I heard the news about Oscar's plans was Kurt Emhoff, who is Dmitriy's attorney and who once represented Malignaggi. No Masians probably know Kurt from the comments pages (where, very sneakily, he calls himself "Kurt"), and I know him as an insightful and articulate guy who is a veritable treasure trove of information about the fight game. As you can imagine, this is a very crazy time for him, but nevertheless, he was gracious enough to give me an interview last night about these most exciting recent developments.
L: Kurt, I'm very interested with this Dmitriy/Oscar situation in hearing how the whole thing started. Did you contact Oscar's people or did they contact you?
Kurt: I actually read Dan Rafael on ESPN.com about how Dan had spoken with Richard Schaeffer (Golden Boy CEO) about it, and then I started getting calls from people all over boxing. Golden Boy hadn’t reached out to me, so I ended up reaching out to Golden Boy, and it’s a good thing I did because apparently Shelly Finkel called Dmitriy and said, “look I can get you the fight done, I can make it happen,” and then basically he started unilaterally negotiating with Golden Boy on Dmitriy’s behalf.
L: (laughing) Wow.
Kurt: (also laughing) Yeah. It’s a dirty business man. Dmitriy had told me that Shelly called, but then when I talked to Golden Boy myself and told Dmitriy what Shelly had done, he was completely disgusted.
L: So the timeline is that you started hearing whispers around the boxing world that the idea was in the atmosphere and then you made the call to Golden Boy?
Kurt: Right. I made the call to Golden Boy because I know Dave Itskowitch, the COO at Golden Boy. He used to be Lou DiBella’s right-hand man, so we’re very tight with Dave. Actually, that's really how I found about this initially, because Golden Boy thought that Lou still promoted Dmitriy and they contacted him. Lou called me and told me that De La Hoya was interested and that I should give them a call.
L: Where do you think the idea for Dmitriy as an opponent for Oscar came from? Because it’s definitely not the most natural match-up out there.
Kurt: Well, you know, I think Oscar is looking for a tune-up fight before Floyd, and the best thing to do is take on a naturally smaller guy. A naturally smaller guy who doesn’t have a lot of punching power. That’s the logic they're using. So they’re looking at junior welterweights who HBO wouldn’t be completely offended by for an Oscar fight. You got Stevie Forbes, former world champion, just had a nice win on pay-per-view over Francisco Bojado, and he’s affiliated with "The Contender," so that ups his profile. Paulie, obviously, is a world champion, and Golden Boy has ties with Lou DiBella (Malignaggi's promoter), they’ve done a lot of business with him.
L: Where do the negotiations stand right now?
Kurt: Well, basically Golden Boy has an idea of their budget, and everyone’s making their pitch to them about why they should get the fight. It’s kind of a beauty contest at this point. The bottom line I think is that they’re looking for the person they can get the cheapest. I’m not sure they really have a preference beyond that.
L: This is not a pay-per-view fight, right?
Kurt: Right, it’s regular HBO, so it’s not this big upside for money. It’s a cut-and-dried budget, and Golden Boy is just looking for that fighter who’s willing to, you know, get in there with Oscar and move up two weight classes and fight him in his hometown (laughs).
L: Well, on that score, there are a lot of other junior welterweights out there that people know who Oscar could beat and that have bigger names than Dmitriy. I’m thinking that Dmitriy’s story, and now the release of the movie, must play a role in Oscar's interest. Do you think that’s true?
Kurt: I definitely think so. Dmitriy sent out invitations before any of this happened to Richard Schaeffer and Dave Itskowitch to attend the movie. And, you know, the documentary is amazing.
L: You’re happy with the movie?
Kurt: Oh very, very. Jason Hutt is a tremendously talented filmmaker and he followed Dmitriy with a camera for three to four years and really did an amazing job of capturing any number of things. Not just your usual boxer-in-training type shots either, but also of Dmitry’s conversion to being an Orthodox and observant Jew and how the community views him and views boxing and the conflict between his faith and a violent sport. And, you know, it’s also the classic story of an immigrant just trying to make it in Brooklyn. Plus, as an attorney in the sport one part of it I really think is compelling is that Lou DiBella actually allowed Jason to capture some of the negotiations of the promotional contract with Dmitriy. And, well, I suspect that material will confirm some people’s thoughts about the way things go in boxing (laughing).
L: Wow. And DiBella signed off on that?
Kurt: Yeah. Lou’s seen the movie and he likes it. You know, Lou for the most part is an open book. Things didn’t work out between him and Dmitriy, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a pretty fair, what-you-see-is-what-you-get kind of guy.
L: So you guys are still on good terms with Lou? I mean, you must be if he’s willing to call and give you the Oscar tip even after Dmitiriy had broken with him.
Kurt: Oh yeah, definitely. We parted on amicable terms. DiBella put out a press release that was very positive, and we’ve been very positive, and you know, it’s just one of those things. Dmitriy wanted to pursue things on his own, no hard feelings. But Lou’s a good guy and I would without question take fighters to Lou again. I think he’s still the best promoter in New York, the East Coast for the most part.
L: So back to the Oscar question, Kurt - when do you think it’s all gonna go down? When will we know?
Kurt: I think it’s going to happen by the end of the week. They want to get it wrapped up and get the promotion started. They don’t want to drag it out. And we’d like to know as well, because there are a lot of issues to work out for us well. I mean, if the fight is on the west coast it may pose a big problem for Dmitriy with Shabbat and sundown and the timing of the fight.
L: Man, that’s interesting. I never would have even thought about that.
Kurt: Yeah, well look, HBO is a New York-based company that caters to the East Coast. I don’t know that they’d want to bring the main event on much later than 11 or 11:30, especially when it’s regular HBO. That could be a problem for us with sundown. Dmitriy’s going to need at least an hour to warm up before the fight.
L: And on a Saturday right, he won’t do anything until sundown.
Kurt: Right.
L: Wow. I, ah… I gotta think that as far as a big-time fight goes, and I know that there’s no title at stake here, but still right now whenever Oscar fights it’s a big-time fight… and for a fight of this magnitude I have to imagine this is an issue that’s never been dealt with before.
Kurt: Not that I know of. And yeah, it’s definitely a big deal, because Dmitriy is living it, you know. He’s observant.
L: I know, I know. Man. All right, so let me change the subject here and ask you about Dmitriy's prospects against Oscar. Obviously he'd be a heavy underdog, but to me it seems like a Paulie/Cotto situation, where if Dmitriy goes in there and gives a really good account of himself, he changes his career incalculably even if he loses.
Kurt: Without question. Dmitriy definitely has his critics right now, people saying that he hasn’t stepped up and taken big fights. MaxBoxing did an article where they presented that very issue to us. But, you know, to be willing to jump up two weight divisions to fight the biggest star in the sport, a certain Hall of Famer and a guy who last year lost a split decision to the best fighter in the game... I mean, let's face it, Oscar still has some heat on the fastball. To take him on in Mexico in front of a hundred-twenty thousand fans - that’s big balls right there. And if Dmitriy could give him a run for his money in those circumstances, there’s no question his stock goes way way up. Plus, there’s just the cultural dimension of it. I don’t think an orthodox Jew has ever fought for a title or, you know, occupied that type of air space where you’re fighting an Oscar De La Hoya. It’s just huge all around.
L: One more thing, Kurt. I know you used to represent Paulie – you have much to do with him anymore?
Kurt: Not that much business-wise. We’re still very friendly. I actually got him an endorsement not too long ago. I’m a big Paulie fan.
L: So obviously you’re competing with Paulie’s people for this fight. That said, what do you think are his chances of getting in there with Oscar?
Kurt: Well, it’s interesting with Paulie, because he actually has more to risk. He's a titlist at 140 already, and then if he steps up and takes the Oscar fight and looks terrible in there and gets blown out, I’m not sure people are even going to want to see him fight Ricky Hatton. So I think that’s kind of weighed into the calculation. If Oscar’s offering relatively short money for an Oscar fight, do you make as much or more in a more competitive fight with Hatton? Because I think it’s fairly certain that they can make the Hatton fight.
L: No kidding? Really?
Kurt: Yeah. Hatton doesn’t really want to fight Junior Witter, and Ricardo Torres doesn’t mean anything to him. That leaves Paulie as the most compelling fight for him.
L: All right Kurt, thanks a lot for your time, and know that all of us here at No Mas are rooting hard for Dmitriy in this one. Take care.
Kurt: Thanks Large.
(One final note for all you New York No Masians out there - Orthodox Stance makes its final appearance in the Jewish Film Festival tonight at Walter Reade, 8 p.m. I haven't seen the movie, but all reports I've heard are that it's excellent. Our crack correspondent, No Mas Nick Strini, will be on the scene to give us a full report.)
If you're unfamiliar with Salita, he's a Ukrainian-born fighter who moved to Brooklyn when he was nine and learned the fight game under the tutelage of local legend Jimmy O'Pharrow at the Starrett City Boxing Club. Dmitriy is also an observant Orthodox Jew, which has brought him a lot of attention and a passionate fan base in the city. His story is remarkable, and it's told in Jason Hutt's new documentary, Orthodox Stance, which has its last showing at the Jewish Film Festival in New York tonight and then opens in the city starting Friday.The first person I thought of when I heard the news about Oscar's plans was Kurt Emhoff, who is Dmitriy's attorney and who once represented Malignaggi. No Masians probably know Kurt from the comments pages (where, very sneakily, he calls himself "Kurt"), and I know him as an insightful and articulate guy who is a veritable treasure trove of information about the fight game. As you can imagine, this is a very crazy time for him, but nevertheless, he was gracious enough to give me an interview last night about these most exciting recent developments.
L: Kurt, I'm very interested with this Dmitriy/Oscar situation in hearing how the whole thing started. Did you contact Oscar's people or did they contact you?
Kurt: I actually read Dan Rafael on ESPN.com about how Dan had spoken with Richard Schaeffer (Golden Boy CEO) about it, and then I started getting calls from people all over boxing. Golden Boy hadn’t reached out to me, so I ended up reaching out to Golden Boy, and it’s a good thing I did because apparently Shelly Finkel called Dmitriy and said, “look I can get you the fight done, I can make it happen,” and then basically he started unilaterally negotiating with Golden Boy on Dmitriy’s behalf.
L: (laughing) Wow.
Kurt: (also laughing) Yeah. It’s a dirty business man. Dmitriy had told me that Shelly called, but then when I talked to Golden Boy myself and told Dmitriy what Shelly had done, he was completely disgusted.
L: So the timeline is that you started hearing whispers around the boxing world that the idea was in the atmosphere and then you made the call to Golden Boy?
Kurt: Right. I made the call to Golden Boy because I know Dave Itskowitch, the COO at Golden Boy. He used to be Lou DiBella’s right-hand man, so we’re very tight with Dave. Actually, that's really how I found about this initially, because Golden Boy thought that Lou still promoted Dmitriy and they contacted him. Lou called me and told me that De La Hoya was interested and that I should give them a call.
L: Where do you think the idea for Dmitriy as an opponent for Oscar came from? Because it’s definitely not the most natural match-up out there.
Kurt: Well, you know, I think Oscar is looking for a tune-up fight before Floyd, and the best thing to do is take on a naturally smaller guy. A naturally smaller guy who doesn’t have a lot of punching power. That’s the logic they're using. So they’re looking at junior welterweights who HBO wouldn’t be completely offended by for an Oscar fight. You got Stevie Forbes, former world champion, just had a nice win on pay-per-view over Francisco Bojado, and he’s affiliated with "The Contender," so that ups his profile. Paulie, obviously, is a world champion, and Golden Boy has ties with Lou DiBella (Malignaggi's promoter), they’ve done a lot of business with him.L: Where do the negotiations stand right now?
Kurt: Well, basically Golden Boy has an idea of their budget, and everyone’s making their pitch to them about why they should get the fight. It’s kind of a beauty contest at this point. The bottom line I think is that they’re looking for the person they can get the cheapest. I’m not sure they really have a preference beyond that.
L: This is not a pay-per-view fight, right?
Kurt: Right, it’s regular HBO, so it’s not this big upside for money. It’s a cut-and-dried budget, and Golden Boy is just looking for that fighter who’s willing to, you know, get in there with Oscar and move up two weight classes and fight him in his hometown (laughs).
L: Well, on that score, there are a lot of other junior welterweights out there that people know who Oscar could beat and that have bigger names than Dmitriy. I’m thinking that Dmitriy’s story, and now the release of the movie, must play a role in Oscar's interest. Do you think that’s true?
Kurt: I definitely think so. Dmitriy sent out invitations before any of this happened to Richard Schaeffer and Dave Itskowitch to attend the movie. And, you know, the documentary is amazing.L: You’re happy with the movie?
Kurt: Oh very, very. Jason Hutt is a tremendously talented filmmaker and he followed Dmitriy with a camera for three to four years and really did an amazing job of capturing any number of things. Not just your usual boxer-in-training type shots either, but also of Dmitry’s conversion to being an Orthodox and observant Jew and how the community views him and views boxing and the conflict between his faith and a violent sport. And, you know, it’s also the classic story of an immigrant just trying to make it in Brooklyn. Plus, as an attorney in the sport one part of it I really think is compelling is that Lou DiBella actually allowed Jason to capture some of the negotiations of the promotional contract with Dmitriy. And, well, I suspect that material will confirm some people’s thoughts about the way things go in boxing (laughing).
L: Wow. And DiBella signed off on that?
Kurt: Yeah. Lou’s seen the movie and he likes it. You know, Lou for the most part is an open book. Things didn’t work out between him and Dmitriy, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a pretty fair, what-you-see-is-what-you-get kind of guy.
L: So you guys are still on good terms with Lou? I mean, you must be if he’s willing to call and give you the Oscar tip even after Dmitiriy had broken with him.
Kurt: Oh yeah, definitely. We parted on amicable terms. DiBella put out a press release that was very positive, and we’ve been very positive, and you know, it’s just one of those things. Dmitriy wanted to pursue things on his own, no hard feelings. But Lou’s a good guy and I would without question take fighters to Lou again. I think he’s still the best promoter in New York, the East Coast for the most part.
L: So back to the Oscar question, Kurt - when do you think it’s all gonna go down? When will we know?
Kurt: I think it’s going to happen by the end of the week. They want to get it wrapped up and get the promotion started. They don’t want to drag it out. And we’d like to know as well, because there are a lot of issues to work out for us well. I mean, if the fight is on the west coast it may pose a big problem for Dmitriy with Shabbat and sundown and the timing of the fight.
L: Man, that’s interesting. I never would have even thought about that.
Kurt: Yeah, well look, HBO is a New York-based company that caters to the East Coast. I don’t know that they’d want to bring the main event on much later than 11 or 11:30, especially when it’s regular HBO. That could be a problem for us with sundown. Dmitriy’s going to need at least an hour to warm up before the fight.
L: And on a Saturday right, he won’t do anything until sundown.
Kurt: Right.
L: Wow. I, ah… I gotta think that as far as a big-time fight goes, and I know that there’s no title at stake here, but still right now whenever Oscar fights it’s a big-time fight… and for a fight of this magnitude I have to imagine this is an issue that’s never been dealt with before.Kurt: Not that I know of. And yeah, it’s definitely a big deal, because Dmitriy is living it, you know. He’s observant.
L: I know, I know. Man. All right, so let me change the subject here and ask you about Dmitriy's prospects against Oscar. Obviously he'd be a heavy underdog, but to me it seems like a Paulie/Cotto situation, where if Dmitriy goes in there and gives a really good account of himself, he changes his career incalculably even if he loses.
Kurt: Without question. Dmitriy definitely has his critics right now, people saying that he hasn’t stepped up and taken big fights. MaxBoxing did an article where they presented that very issue to us. But, you know, to be willing to jump up two weight divisions to fight the biggest star in the sport, a certain Hall of Famer and a guy who last year lost a split decision to the best fighter in the game... I mean, let's face it, Oscar still has some heat on the fastball. To take him on in Mexico in front of a hundred-twenty thousand fans - that’s big balls right there. And if Dmitriy could give him a run for his money in those circumstances, there’s no question his stock goes way way up. Plus, there’s just the cultural dimension of it. I don’t think an orthodox Jew has ever fought for a title or, you know, occupied that type of air space where you’re fighting an Oscar De La Hoya. It’s just huge all around.
L: One more thing, Kurt. I know you used to represent Paulie – you have much to do with him anymore?
Kurt: Not that much business-wise. We’re still very friendly. I actually got him an endorsement not too long ago. I’m a big Paulie fan.
L: So obviously you’re competing with Paulie’s people for this fight. That said, what do you think are his chances of getting in there with Oscar?
Kurt: Well, it’s interesting with Paulie, because he actually has more to risk. He's a titlist at 140 already, and then if he steps up and takes the Oscar fight and looks terrible in there and gets blown out, I’m not sure people are even going to want to see him fight Ricky Hatton. So I think that’s kind of weighed into the calculation. If Oscar’s offering relatively short money for an Oscar fight, do you make as much or more in a more competitive fight with Hatton? Because I think it’s fairly certain that they can make the Hatton fight.L: No kidding? Really?
Kurt: Yeah. Hatton doesn’t really want to fight Junior Witter, and Ricardo Torres doesn’t mean anything to him. That leaves Paulie as the most compelling fight for him.
L: All right Kurt, thanks a lot for your time, and know that all of us here at No Mas are rooting hard for Dmitriy in this one. Take care.
Kurt: Thanks Large.
(One final note for all you New York No Masians out there - Orthodox Stance makes its final appearance in the Jewish Film Festival tonight at Walter Reade, 8 p.m. I haven't seen the movie, but all reports I've heard are that it's excellent. Our crack correspondent, No Mas Nick Strini, will be on the scene to give us a full report.)
posted by Large at 4:19 PM
16 Comments:
As I said in a previous post..and The Rooster doesn't shill for anyone or anything...thus, I'm not getting paid for saying this. I loved the Orthodox Stance. I seen it when it was announced here on this site a few weeks back. I went in search of a good movie and I got it. Serious, if you aren't moved by this then you aren't a boxing fan. The neogotiations are an awesome part of the movie. I also loved it when Dmitriy went off on his friends for calling Kosta a quitter...classic we have all gotten into those heated arguments with people and friends about our favorite fighters.
I repeat, THIS IS A MUST SEE MOVIE. Also, there are some cute Jewish girls in the seats...holla!
The Rooster has spoken.
One last thing...if you don't get choked up when Dmitriy talks about his mother...dear God...you are a heartless bastard.
I hope that once the week is up and we know if this fight is going to happen or not, No Mas can break the news? I'll be looking at this space hoping this fight gets made. This could be compelling 24/7 fodder as well....
Probably won't be a 24/7, Kopper, unfortunately, just because it won't be a PPV. But yeah, we are definitely hoping pretty hard here at the No to the Mas for Dmitriy to get the nod. For selfish reasons, obviously, because we would have a real inside look at the big-time if it happened. But mostly just for Kurt and Dmitriy - it would do great things for the Salita cause, and we are very down with that cause.
If it does happen, I'm defnitely going to try and be there. I mean - the Estadio Azteca in Mexico City? That shit would be off the hook. Boxrec right now has the fight made for Stevie Forbes - I'm hoping they don't know something that we don't. Rafael also has a blog piece today talking about the three candidates.
Rooster, I cannot tell you how pained I have been to not be able to see the movie. Being out of NYC does have its downside. I'm hoping I can work something out with Kurt to see it when I come back in to cover the Klitschko/Ibragimov fight at the Garden.
Certainly interesting news. Could you picture the mess if Oscar got caught and lost? (yeah right).
I think Oscar saw a new Mayweather in the Hatton knockout. His comments on how his some of his last fights were boring, could have Oscar thinking a little.
Good interview, good interviewee. Kurt seems like a sharp dude.
Great interview. they really should consider doing at least a one part 24/7 for this fight. Dimitri has too much going on in his life outside the ring that the casual fan could appreciate for HBO to miss the opportunity. This fight could be big, I really hope Dima gets a shot.
a great read.. (always) question, what do you think the chances are of the film getting a dvd release? and will you sell it in your eagerly awaited media section? sydney's a long way from New york..
Well, I should be able to get Kurt to speak to that, ML. My take is that in that it has a distributor and is getting at least a limited theater release that it will definitely be released on DVD. If it is, we will sell it here no doubt. And hey, I feel you - Davis is a long way from NYC too. If I can't get a screener when I'm in the city next month then I'll have to catch it in LA in April.
JLH - the thing about 24/7 is that it's a very expensive production on the whole. My understanding is that there's almost no way they'll trot the team out for a non-PPV fight where it's not immediately going to translate into money. But they'll definitely promote the shit out of it, and Dmitriy's story will figure prominently in that. The upside for him is outrageous promotionally. Obviously, I very much hope he gets it too, and not the least of the reasons is that Stevie Forbes seems like such a wackass opponent for Oscar right now. It's a joke, and I'm tired of these Contender non-contenders getting trotted out as sacrificial lambs for big-name tune-ups. It's giving the A-list an easy way out on their in-between fights.
Large, is Salita so much better than Forbes then? Saying I don't know both very well - not able to view the Contender stuff, neither smaller US-fight-cards here in Europe - but my impressions from some lecture was, that many aren't too high on Salita.
I understand your excitement in this situation, but aren't all 3 possible opponents nothing but lambs anyway?
Paulie would have the best shot at winning in my estimation, Trickster. He gave a very good bout to Cotto and that counts for a lot in my book. The size differential will be the main problem for all of them. No, if we're being honest here, Dmitriy does not have a better chance at beating Oscar than Stevie Forbes on the balance sheet - the only real advantage he has is size on Stevie. Forbes did the Contender thing in the 150's I think (I never watch the Contender) but he's a natural lightweight, whereas Dmitriy is comfortable in the 147 territory. Of course, in pulling for Dmitriy to get the bout I'm completely biased, also biased against Forbes because I loathe The Contender. That said, I like Stevie and I wish him well.
great interview large. i can't wait to see 'orthodox stance' hopefully it'll come out here sometime soon. obviously, if it comes down to dmitriy or forbes. i can't hide my colors and pretend to be non-partisan either, but i gotta say regardless, whoever does get the fight you can bet that i'll definitely be pulling for either one of them. dlh-mayweather II is the last thing i'd like to see happen.
cant wait for the dvd.
I'm not saying anything or pushing an agenda here. Yet, I think it might be great if you could get some pre-released DVD's on the movie and sell them here for a decent price. You know, you make a dollar or two and also can pay for shipping and stuff.
We at The Rooster Consulting who are always looking to angle shoot would hate to go all Chinatown on this movies and sell bootlegs at my site...holla! I live uptown baby...always looking for away to make a dollar. Because if it makes dollars it makes sense...holla!
No, but in all serious, it seems like enough people would want to see this movie and we can all add a link to our sites for people to come here and buy the DVD. I'm just saying that NOMAS isn't making money and one day Large is going to leave for some right-wing site that censors his writing (DOH!)or he might become a suit and join corporate america. WTF...i should be running the business aspect of this site.
I say if you want to keep reading good stuff go buy a shirt...holla!
And if Dmitry gets the fight...challah!
rooster, keep your uptown nonsense uptown.
no mas needs a hero.
nay, may i say legend.
i pick shaolin's finest.
myself!
i'd attach a resume, but thats too tacky.
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