Mandingo the Bold
After last night, my gut feeling about James Kirkland is this: So long as his chin holds up, he’s going to give us all one hell of a ride. As I wrote in my recap piece over at HBO, no one since Gatti in his heyday has been such a devotee of the manly art of no defense.
You have to feel for Joel Julio. The guy was definitely game, took a shitload of punishment in there, and also pretty much executed his game-plan to perfection, staying on the move, countering effectively, and more than anything, landing any number of big power shots that he and the rest of us might have expected eventually would level the playing field and slow the charging Mandingo train.
No dice, however. Kirkland’s chin, already suspected of granite status after his haymaker-fest with Brian Vera, now may have to be upgraded to the ultimate, code-red tier of chin-material – Baldomirian. My only caveat to putting him in that category right now is that I’m not completely sold on Julio at 54. He looked a little undersized in there to me, which will happen when you’re facing a block of ripped marble like Kirkland, but still, I felt like he just wasn’t quite big enough to make his shots completely count last night, and I wonder what will happen when Kirkland eats bombs like that from a hard-punching, legit junior middle. I disagreed with the announcers (I watched the replay when I got home) that Julio wasn’t sitting down on his shots enough. Yes, he was throwing a lot of counters while backtracking, but Kirkland was stepping right into them, and I can tell you something from my observation at ringside – even those backtracking shots packed some pop. And then when he did set his feet and get into the windmill exchanges, Julio got off with some gigantic bombs right on the button.
Kirkland claimed in the post-fight presser that he’d never been hurt in the fight. “Man,” he said, “I can take punches from a robot.” I’m guessing he meant “take punches like a robot,” but whatever – he was on a roll. Me, I thought he was buzzed once, in either the second or the third round, when Julio landed a crisp one-two and followed it up with a left hook to the ear. At that point, pigs flew, hell froze, and Kirkland took a backward step. It was the first and maybe only moment in the fight where Julio seemed emboldened, stepping in to let his hands fly a little bit with the sense that he had a brief advantage. Predictably, it was very brief.
Mandingo has a real problem now, as far as I can see, a problem also faced by Vicious Victor Ortiz – who are they going to fight now? When you’re as dominant as those two were last night in their step-up fights, it leaves you in a little bit of a matchmaking quandary. Both guys have bouts out there for them that are natural makes – Alfredo Angulo for Kirkland and Timothy Bradley for Ortiz – but do their handlers want to rush them up to such demanding opponents this quickly, particularly when neither will generate big money?
In the post-fight presser, Ortiz was mellow on the topic of the future (the dude is on the whole bizarrely mellow), saying that when the big bouts come, he’ll be ready. Kirkland was absolutely hilarious when talking about Angulo, who he referred to throughout as “Angulio.”
“Here’s what I have to say about Angulio,” he said. “We’ve sparred before, so I know what he’s all about. I’m going to leave those decisions to Oscar De La Hoya and Golden Boy, but I know what I can do to Angulio.”
Personally, I also happen to know what Angulio can do to him, and I very much want to see that mighty sword cut both ways. I imagine that Ortiz will be knocking out the B+ list at 140 for at least another year or so, but when it comes to Kirkland, I sense that the groundswell for him to face El Perro is going to be overwhelming. Becaise, well… what with all the Floyd/Pacquiao talk and the likely pre-Puerto Rican Day matchup between Cotto and Clottey at the Garden, it may seem crazy to say this, but seeing Kirkland chopping wood up close and personal last night put me in the mood to think that a Kirkland/Angulo smackdown is the most mouth-watering fight that boxing has to offer right now.
(P.S. – I’ll say only this about Guerrero’s decision to pull out because of his eye: From the standpoint of having been in the arena, it was a major drag, completely deflating what was a surprisingly big and vocal crowd, most of whom were there to support him. The cut did indeed look horrible. But then, one couldn’t help but think of Gatti’s famous fight with Joe Hutchinson where he fought through a gory mess of an eye-cut to stop Hutchinson in front of his hometown fans in Montreal. That was one of those vintage Gatti moments, and it’s why Gatti was Gatti. Of course, not everyone is cut from that cloth, and I’m not sure we need to hold Robert Guerrero to that standard.)
March 8th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Kirkland is a bad ass, pure and simple.
From a marketing perspective, I kind of wish the “in-between” weight classes didnt exist. Kirkland as a Middleweight has more mainstream appeal…the public remembers Hagler, Hearns, ec. And, shit, its only six pounds!
Kirlkand v. Pavlik….that would be one hell of an interesting fight.
And, if they both keep winning, we are probably headed in that direction…
March 8th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
heres my thing with kirkland…he needs to do the same thing that pavlik needs to do…get himself a real trainer…have loew/wolfe on the team and cutting them a check….i personally think he whoops angulo…but then again i dont think of angulo too highly…it looks to me like even though kirkland seems pretty cool and laid back…once the switch goes on its like hes taking out a bad childhood or his past on his opponent…he could let the fight come to him a little more…hell sometimes it looks like hes taking his and ann wolfes past out on guys….lol
love checking for ortiz…saw him duff out carlos maussa on the shane/cotto undercard at msg…
as far as guerrero…hes taking some heat for this…i see large talking about gatti…thats cool…personally when i think of this situation i tend to think more about a guy we just saw in the ring not too long ago…juan diaz..in front of a pro diaz crowd against the galaxxy warrior…not to mention that that yordan(the chino latino…love the nickname)didnt look to shabby in the limited time we got to see him….i tend to believe that guerrero might have thought this guy was going to be a tough nut to crack without the cut…and it wasnt worth trying to fight this guy with that thing and looking at a possible L…its too bad…but i understand
March 9th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Kirkland reminds me of Frank “The Animal” Fletcher (but with more power) when Fletcher was on his run up the middleweight ladder in the early ’80′s. Fletcher just put unrelenting pressure on opponents and wore them out. His Mom was also a great sideshow – you can check out his classic NBC Sportsworld fight with Clint Jackson on Youtube.
Like Fletcher, Kirkland may just get worn out before he even gets to a title shot. If they throw him in there with Angulo, it’s an amazing fight, but the survivor will pay a heavy price. The saving grace for Kirkland is that he isn’t taking a lot of punishment in his fights. I think Angulo might change that.
Another unfortunate thing for Kirkland is that all of the champs at 154 are cuties – Dzindzrek, Santos, Forrest – even PWill and Martinez. No one is going to stand in front of him and let him fire away. My feeling is that he will probably get outboxed by most of these guys.
Ortiz is yet another bright prospect at 140. It will be great when the best prospects at 140 start fighting for titles. I can’t wait to see Ortiz, Lamont Petersen and Devon Alexander eventually duke it out with belts on the line. I doubt that any of the current 140 title holders can beat these guys.
I agree with Ricky – I think Guerrero pulled a Rahman because he could see a difficult fight getting even tougher with the cut. Not exactly crowd pleasing and the last thing you want to do is anger the HBO gods. Then again a loss to an unknown Indonesian doesn’t do much for you either. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
March 9th, 2009 at 10:32 am
I like Guerrero, but was a little let down by the premature stopping of his fight. It looked like he got butted several times, and was a already a bit frustrated by the heads coming together before the cut. I think he decided it was only going to keep happening and would cal it a day. I would like to be mad, but I would also hate to see him get damaged further and have it affect his career. As far as Ortiz and Kirkland are considered, keep em coming! As much as I would love to see Kirkland-Angulo, I would like to see them chop down a few more guys on the same card and build even more hype! This time next year would be perfect. Ortiz is a star, I say keep bringing him along just the way they are, remember how long it too Cotto to take on big time competition? Don’t rush the kid too much, I like the speed of things. Malignaggi might be a good test for Ortiz.
March 9th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I think it might be a litle too soon for a fight with Malignaggi. He won’t be hurt but he will be exposed for every technical mistake he makes. Ortiz is only 22, no need to rush him into a fight with a top contender. I’d like to see him in the ring with the likes of Marcos Maidana, Herman Ndoudjo, or Lovemore Ndou. Any of the three would provide his biggest test to date without providing too much of a jump in talent. He’s young enough to move slowly up the rankings without wasting any time.
Kirkland, on the other hand, is ready for lift off. Yeah, he’s defensivly flawed, but he’s strong and relentless enough to take on the best in the division. In my opinion, only guy that can beat Kirkland at 154 right now is Paul Williams. I can’t see Spinks, Martinez, or Forrest beating the Mandigo Warrior.
March 9th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Kirkland kind of reminds me of a small version of Dwight Braxton/ Dwight Muhammad Qawi. If you enjoy the complex nuances of the craft of boxing the Mandigo Warrior might not be your guy, but he’s definately entertaining.
March 9th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
This is Large here – actually I forgot to mention that at the end of the presser Richard Schaefer got up and said he’d just secured another HBO B.A.D. date in July to have all the same dudes on the card, and that one of the three would be fighting on the Hatton/Pac undercard. Hard for me to imagine that they’re standing by Guerrero the way they are Ortiz and Kirkland, but that’s what he said.
March 9th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I can see why HBO is still interested in Guerrero. He’s not just some hot prospect, the guy has proven already that he is ready to dance at 130 pounds. He really only needs one more showcase fight on tv before stepping up to the big boys (Fana, Soto, Cook). I know everyone is giving him a lot of heat but I’m gonna give him a mulligan as long as he can come back strong this summer.
March 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Guerrero might be a talented guy, but you show your heart in your toughest moments and he really punked out.
Although I am glad for that in a couple ways. 1.) I know not to get invested in the guy as a fan, and 2.) That fight was going to be a horribly boring hold-fest anyway and I was happy to see it over.
March 9th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
I totally agree with Ricky’s first post about Kirkland needing a “real” trainer. Ann is no doubt tough and she obviously is about getting James in great shape for fights but it’s going to take more than being in shape from here on in. Freddie Brown, the old trainer of Marciano, Holmes, Duran, and hundreds of other fighters, had a four-point credo for his fighters:1) the left is as valuable as the right if used correctly(the opposite for southpaws);2)boxing is the art of hitting and not getting hit;3)it is not how hard you hit a man but where you hit a man that matters; and 4) the speed at which you cut up an opponent is related to how efficiently you cut off the ring….Freddie, if he were still alive, would no doubt see Kirkland as a fighter that needs work. It’s not fair to compare Ann Wolfe to Freddie Brown but I don’t she how she can help him get any further.
March 11th, 2009 at 4:46 am
Heads up. On April 11, one month from now, the good people at HBO are hooking us boxing fans up. Big time. The first Pacquiao-Hatton 24/7 episode airs that night as does Paul Williams-Winky Wright and also a documentary on the brutal 1975 Ali-Frazier 3 fight in the Philippines. I also read that our boy Iron Mike Tyson approached Freddie Roach about a job as a trainer. Roach turned him down, saying he believed Tyson lacked the patience to be an effective trainer. Michael Moorer is in. He’s helping train Pacquiao while Roach is working with Khan for this weekends fight.
March 12th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I hear what Ricky and Brad are saying about Pavlik and Kirkland needing new trainers, as Jack Loew and Anne Wolfe seem to train two pretty uncreative fighters. But in all honesty, I think it’s probably too late. I really don’t see either guy making a Gatti-like transformation with a new trainer. Pavlik is always going to be a straight-standing bomber and Kirkland is never going to turn into the second coming of Marc Johnson. Maybe someone can tell Kelly to go to the body more or have Kirkland be a little more patient but at this point they are who they are.
I remember when Emmanuel Steward took over training Kermit Cintron from then unknown trainer Marshall Kaufman. The expectation was that now with “a real trainer” – Kerm would be a much better fighter. I certainly didn’t see that. I saw Cintron getting hit more – that’s for sure. He didn’t do much better in the rematch with Margs – other than not crying.
Did Emmanuel make Lennox better – probably a little, but Lennox had already been a world champ and with experience would have gotten a little better anyway. I don’t think Emmanuel made Oscar any better, either. How many trainers did De La Hoya go through? Did Floyd Sr. really make him any better – not that I can tell.
One guy where I thought it might have made a difference was Peter Manfredo, believe it or not. I thought he was a shade better and a more disciplined fighter with Freddie Roach in his corner. But he was a cutie to begin with and it’s not like he’ll ever win a title at this point.
I just don’t see Pavlik or Kirkland getting that much better with a different trainer – I could be wrong, but they seem to be pretty much who they’re going to be (slight nod to Dennis Green).
March 12th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I agree with most of what you’re saying Kurt. The difference between guys like Oscar and Lennox and a guy like Kirkland is the fundementals. I like Kirkland alot but he pushes his jab too much, gets caught by way too many lead rights, and doesn’t do little things that make a big difference like feinting an opponent, slip punches, etc. I think all these things can be improved if that is what they’re working on in training. From what I’ve seen, and granted it’s not much, Kirkland trains like he’s about to compete in the The World’s Strongest Man competition, not a fight. Flipping tires, chopping wood, rolling ropes with weights attached…it’s all good but he needs to be working on what I like to call the “complex nuances” of the game more.
March 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
You’re right Brad – Kirkland doesn’t do a lot of the little things well. Then again, Anne Wolfe was telling him in the corner to use the jab more, use feints, move his head, watch Julio’s right hand . . .
Maybe if he heard it from a different voice – I don’t know.
Kirkland used to be with the Duva camp when he turned pro. So he worked with Tommy Brooks and big Lou for awhile. He also had over a 100 amateur fights (allegedly – I never trust the fighters account of their amateur record, especially since he turned pro at 17).
I think the problem with switching for both Pavlik and Kirkland is that they are so very loyal to their trainers. Even with the catastrophe Pavlik had with Hopkins – Jack Loew is still there. And honestly, who’s going to tell Kirkland and Wolfe that Wolfe can’t be his trainer anymore. I’d love to be a fly on the wall for that one.
March 12th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Ringtv.com reports that Kirkland could be facing Michael Walker on the Pacman vs. Hatton card. Seems to me like a step backwards for someone who’s coming off a strong performance. It sounds like Golden Boy and Top Rank are putting together another lopsided card.
October 14th, 2010 at 1:19 am
I appreciate you for the recommendation! I can try it out.