Sugar Pain Mosley
posted by Large
Our man Faust from Minnesota was right to point out in the comments to my piece last night that I should have devoted a little more ink to Sugar Shane, because after all it was his night. He brought the pain to Margarito, stood his ground like a man’s man’s man, and pretty much fought a flawless fight all around.
The thing is, where (like many of you I imagine) I was absolutely shocked by Margarito’s performance, I can’t say I was surprised in the least by Shane’s excellence. Shane is always excellent. He’s a consummate professional , always in tremendous shape, always fighting with intelligence and urgency, and always going for the throat when the opportunity presents itself.
It was the indisputable fact of the first two items on that list above that started me thinking he could beat Margs. He outlasted Cotto in a meat-grinder of a war, and so maybe, I thought, he can go the distance in a similar war with Margarito. And his ring-smarts are impeccable, on a par with Bernard’s, so maybe, going up against a guy who has so many holes in his game like Tony, he’ll combine the exact right approach with the discipline to execute it and get the job done.
The third item on the list, though, was what ultimately tipped my prognostification towards Margarito. Shane has never been able to stay out of the el mas macho sweepstakes, even when it behooved him to do so. He has a warrior’s heart and when someone starts smacking him around, he smacks back with authority. We saw that in the first six rounds of his fight with Cotto, six rounds of simply unfathomable boxing skill and will on display that was all-out nuclear war until Mosley, in a self-protective move, finally backed off from the onslaught.
Given that propensity, I imagined that no matter what his game-plan going in, eventually Shane would stay in the pocket with Margs and bang with him, and indeed he did just that. There was a very telling moment in the third round where Shane was trading bombs with Margarito in the center of the ring, and in the crowd, Bernard (who was going apeshit all night) was standing and screaming to him and motioning with his hands, ‘TIE HIM UP! TIE HIM UP!†(Meanwhile, just back and to Hopkins’ right, Jerry Ferrara, ‘E†on Entourage, was motioning to Bernard and cracking up with his buddies.) Clearly, BHop was privy to Mosley’s plan of three-punches-and-grab-him-when-he-gets-close, and he saw his man straying from the path of righteousness straight into the lion’s maw.
And here is where I have no choice but to turn back to the condition of Margarito, because this lion just was not the lion of yore. I don’t think for a moment that in pointing that out I’m taking anything away from what Shane did last night. He fought the only man who came to fight him and gave that man a grade-A beatdown. Mission accomplished and with gusto.
But I do tend to think, given the way things were going, that the Margarito who fought Cotto would have made last night’s fight much more interesting than it ultimately was. After pitching a predictable shutout for six rounds, Shane’s workrate started to slow down in the seventh, and Margs seemed briefly emboldened. Beside me in the press box, a young Mexican writer who had despaired of Margarito’s chances from the moment he stepped in the ring (‘Why is he so skinny?†he yelled, ‘he looks terrible!â€), found his first reason to cheer, as did the crowd, and when the bell rang, in the eyes of many (Harold Lederman included) Margarito had won his first round in the fight.
I didn’t see it that way myself. I thought Shane still tipped the seventh with clean punches (every round, in my memory, ended with Shane planting a big right hand on Margs’ kisser), but I did see it as close, and I wondered. I had noted very early on that Margarito looked gaunt and weak, and after the way the first six rounds went, it was hard to imagine that he could rally. But then in the seventh, he found another gear and landed some of his best shots in the fight (one which Mosley said in the presser hurt him the most he was hurt all night). Shane seemed less able to keep Margarito tied up in his clutches, and everything started to look more according to script. Maybe, I thought, Margarito truly is superhuman, and on a night that appeared to not be his night, he was still going to manage to turn the tables by the sheer force of his will.
That was where his weakness came in, however, because where he was able to eat all of Cotto’s bombs and still dig deep late in the fight, last night he spent a round and a half in his extra, grinding gear and the next thing he knew, he was ready for a knockout. Granted, Shane was landing ungodly shots, even bigger than the ones that Cotto landed at his best (the leaping left hook that finally put Margs down in the 8th was a thing of engineering beauty), but still, as we’ve seen, Margarito in top shape can eat any number of ungodly shots. You combine those with complete physical enervation, however, and there you go. Margarito finito.
I admit that I was ever so slightly disappointed, though it was a satisfying spectacle, no doubt. But I felt robbed of a classic, the same way I felt when whatever happened to Cotto in his fight with Mosley caused him to back off late in the fight and go into a defensive, evasive mode. Of these three high-octane welterweight wars, only in Margs/Cotto do I feel like we saw both men in prime condition see the thing all the way through to the kill. You have to hand it to Margs for going out there in the ninth rather than letting his corner stop it (straight-up Mexican to the last , ‘tonight I am the bull, and the matador has won… so gimme the goddamn muleta alreadyâ€), but this thing was over midway through the 8th when he ran out of gas. I would have liked to see Margarito at full capacity take the fight late and make it interesting in that patented Tony Margs way, but alas. He didn’t have it in him, and what’s more, Mosley was just too good.
I’m about to land in Oakland, so I’m going to wrap this thing up. Again I find myself at the end of a long piece and I still haven’t gotten to either the hand-wraps question or the future for both fighters. I’ll try and do that this week. These three welterweights, yo , Margarito, Mosley and Cotto , they’ve given us a hell of a lot to chew on over the last few years. I find them endlessly interesting.
January 25th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
The Mas is rocking. This site is the best boxing discussion on the web. I thought Tony won the 7th and really started to take it to Shane. It was his last surge and that was it.
The glove thing is really worrisome. I know if it turns out to be true Cotto’s camp is going to make some noise. Boxing does not need a fight that entertaining to have any dark clouds surrounding it.
I was at a local dive that gets all of the fight through a cheater box. It was me and 2 older dudes glued to the one tv that had it on. There was a crap metal band and it was way too loud, but you could not wipe the smile from our faces. What a great fight.
January 25th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
I’m 44 years old and have been a boxing fan my whole life. I’ve seen the great times (the 70′s and 80′s) when boxing frequently made the covers of Sports Illustrated, Newsweek, Inside Sports, etc. Boxing was also covered by all three major networks and ABC regularly devoted 3 hours of prime time to boxing. Today it doesn’t seem like a day like that could have ever existed. ESPN won’t even devote more than an hour or two to the sport. The sport has lost it’s credibility. Few coporate sponsors want anything to do with the sport. In large part because the people that run boxing work refuse to take responsibility for it. When something bad happens in the sport, the powers that be go into full blown denial mode and wait for the storm to blow over rather than facing it, making tough decisions that may cost them money but keep their respect. I’ll be closely watching what happens to Margarito. My guess is the big boys of boxing will want this one to go away…quitely. It’s the very reason the sport lost it’s credibility. I’m suprised any story of last nights fight could have not discussed THE STORY. “The Story” of last night, isn’t that Margarito lost, it’s that he did a Luis Resto. It’s puts his great win over Cotto in question. Were those huge punches he landed on Cotto helped by plaster-of-paris?….sad.
January 25th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Large, the reason Tony Margs didn’t “make it interesting in that patented Tony Margs way” was because his punch appeared to be sadly lacking some power….wonder why all of a sudden Margs didn’t hit hard? Hell, Cotto and Mayorga rocked Mosley harder than Margs did. Odd? Marg punched like Sweet Pea Whitaker last night.
January 25th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Can someone please go into detail on the wrapping gloves procedures? I know that the opposing camps witness the tape wrappings of the fighters, but do they inspect the tape itself? Can this plaster of paris “agent” be embedded within the tape that they’re using? Does the commission supply the tape? Can the opposing managers touch/feel the fighter’s hands? How could something like this have been caught last night and never before?
I have to agree with Brad and it would be best for the sport if this went away quietly, but I doubt that will happen. One of 2 things happened: there was no Plaster of Paris and Mosely’s camp did this to get into Marg’s head, or Marg was loading the gloves and ran into a savvy bunch who saw something countless other managers/commssions had missed previously. Because one thing is certain, if Margs was trying to load his gloves, no way last night was the 1st time, especially after the beating he gave Cotto in allegedly “clean” gloves.
January 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
When Mosley’s trainer Nazim Richardson saw Margarito’s hands before they were to be gloved he complained to the California State Athletic Commision that there was too much tape. He did this to Trinidad when he fought Hopkins(he worked for Hopkins camp) also. The CSAC agreed and made Margarito people cut the wraps and redo it. That’s when they discovered a “plaster like substance” in the layers of the wraps and “evidence was taken”.
January 25th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Guys, guys… let’s not hang the man quite yet. There’s nothing really to go on right now other than things that were said in the heat of the moment before a fight. Golden Boy people are saying that it was Plaster of Paris, Top Rank people are saying it was balled up gauze. There was a CSAC rep who also repeated the Plaster line, but it was unclear to me based on the reports I read that he wasn’t just repeating what he’d heard from Nazim and crew.
In the end, I think the jury is still out. I’m not saying it is or isn’t a thing, and if it IS a thing, it’s a big thing for real. But to already have decided based on what we know right now that Margarito beat Cotto, and others, because he’s been loading his gloves all these years is jumping the gun significantly.
Generally a fighter sends a rep to watch the entire hand-wrapping process of his opponent. This was part of the controversy, if you recall, in the Hopkins/Tito situation – when Nazim got into Tito’s dressing room, one hand was already wrapped and gloved, which is how the complaint started.
My point is that loading the gloves is not quite as easy as it used to be back in the Panama Lewis days. I will say this – I’m surprised that Margarito and his people haven’t issued a statement yet.
I’m planning an in-depth piece on this, with interviews, history, the whole shebang, for HBO’s boxing website. Just waiting for clearance on that to get rolling and then I want to get it done this week. So, you know, I’m on it. Believe me, gents, I know it’s a big story.
January 25th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Fair enough. I could be jumping the gun here, but there really is no happy ending here, regardless of whatever the evidence proves. On one hand, Richardson could be pulling some Belichick-esque mind games if Margs is cleared, with the unfortunate fallout of tainting a wonderful fighter’s reputation forever– with no recourse for that fighter whatsoever.
But if Margs did have some unusual or questionable substance in his wrap, then not only does a career of a fighter go down the tubes, but one seen by an entire nation as their “modern-day warrior.” Not only would such a revelation be a dark day for boxing, but it would be a stomach-punch to Mexico.
January 25th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Nazim is definitely not fucking with Margo. He saw something was wrong and he called them on it, and that’s his job. Something definitely wasn’t right about the wrap job. Whether it was a loaded gloves situation or not is still up for debate. I think we’ll be hearing about that by weeks end. Obviously I hope this doesn’t turn out to be some serious dirt, but if it is, yeah, it will tarnish Margs in a major way and cast a pall over the Cotto fight, which would be a drag to say the least.
January 25th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
i am not sure what it means, that most boxing fans are ho-hum regarding performance-enhancing drugs. yet for a loading the gloves accusation, people are already up in arms, ready to write off a guy’s entire career. i think nothing is lower than the panama lewis treatment, so i don’t disagree with the herd here. just find it interesting, compared to the hoopla over roids and such in other sports.
the facts of this matter should be pretty easy to establish. what the objectionable material was or was not. how the wraps were inspected for prior margarito bouts. oh, wait, this is boxing. i guess not. the facts will trickle out, be twisted and obscured in myriad ways. we don’t even know if it was plaster of paris, gauze, a plastic insert, or brass knuckles. good luck investigating this, large.
January 26th, 2009 at 2:10 am
interested to see if anything becomes of this wrapping incident…i mean…this is a guy who basically ripped part of sebastian lujuans ear off…that just isnt normal shit
January 26th, 2009 at 2:33 am
Kooper is right, if Margo was really loading his gloves, that destroys a fucking lot. And if he did so, I think it is the baddest thing you can do in this sport, cuz you really threaten your opponents life..
but there is one thing, that I don’t understand: If Team Mosley really thinks, Margo was trying to use loaded gloves, there reactions after the fight are strange. I mean, that guy tried to cheat you and was threatening Sugars (ring) life and afterwards you say… “He is a great champion and warrior??” Sorry man, but if someone tries to load his gloves and you see and know it, you give him hell for it.
@drugs: I stated this before and do it again. If people think that boxing is a sport, where performance enhancing drugs like EPO or steroids are not use on a regular basis (like in most other sports too) than they are idealistic or delusional. There is doping in nearly every sport and the “controls†are a joke. But there is a fucking difference between having more stamina thanks to EPO and turning your gloves into bricks.
January 26th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Well I think doping definately “enhances” performances but it certainly doesn’t turn you fists into rocks. From what I understand it helps you recover from workout quicker, giving you an advantage and they do test…it’s not like boxing says do whatever you want with drugs. I don’t think all violations can be lumped into one category. For example, when a fighter hits another fighter below the belt that is a foul. Biting someone on the ear is also a foul, but they should hardly be considered the same. Using Plaster-of-Paris in your wraps is the equivilant of biting someones ear, let’s not group all fouls together. This is a very,very bad one.
January 26th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Damn Large, your coverage here and at TSB has been incredible. I can’t wait to read your piece on Margo’s hand wraps over at HBO. Be sure to let me know when that’s going up.
January 26th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Trickster,
Shane might not have known the extent of the wrapping situation during any post-fight interviews. If I’m Nazim, I might not even tell him that anything was up, so as not to distract him. Also, even if he did know, he can’t really react negatively toward Margarito as a cheater considering his own past.
January 26th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I agree with you Trickster. I’m sure Mosley wants the story to go away. How can you blame him? We should all be talking about how good he looked, not what Margarito tried to get away with. Of course, if I’m Cotto or Cintron, I’m screaming to whoever will listen that Margarito all of a sudden punched like a sissy on Saturday when he was hitting like a mule before…coincidence? I think they have a real beef if the wraps come back tainted.
January 26th, 2009 at 11:38 am
If it all turns out to be true, I feel really bad for Miguel Cotto. Here’s a guy who was on the cusp of becoming the world’s pound for pound best. He was undefeated and had everything going for him. If he beat Margarito, Paul Williams would be the only man in his way of cleaning up the entire 147 pond division.
Hypothetically, if Evangelista Cotto caught Margarito cheating, where would Cotto be today? He would have survived Margarito’s late comeback and won with a UD. Cotto would have fought De La Hoya and completely dismantled him. Hell, we might be considering him the best pound for pound fighter in the sport right now.
January 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
“Hypothetically, if Evangelista Cotto caught Margarito cheating, where would Cotto be today? He would have survived Margarito’s late comeback and won with a UD. Cotto would have fought De La Hoya and completely dismantled him. Hell, we might be considering him the best pound for pound fighter in the sport right now.”
i hear ya…but really if evangelista was really a great trainer, with lots of experience in big world class fights, that fight outcome might have been different…i think it would be pretty interesting to turn back time and see how much benefit shane/nazim got from being able to watch margs/cotto…id like to see how shane might have done if he had gotten to margs first…in my opinion the outcome would have been close to the same…really paul williams helped to shape a plan…but thats tough because not everyone has the advantages that pwill has…we all know cotto doesnt watch tape on his opponents…its pretty stubborn…but thats his choice…it oughta be pretty interesting to see if/how margs and his team can adjust to the blueprint and see if they can tear it up
January 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Dudes – here’s my take on the wraps situation as it stands so far from over at the Sporting Blog
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/16787/margarito’s_camp_speaks_on_hand_wraps_controversy
January 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Good stuff Large. I’m simply glad it was caught before the fight. That could be why the story isn’t playing out that loudly in the press. I remember the Collins Resto fight. It was a great night for boxing, or so I thought at the time. Duran got his redemption and never was an arena as electric as the Garden was that night. There was an energy that I’ve never felt at any other sporting event. That great night was ruined to some extend when we learned that a crime had been committed and Billy Collins suffered a torn iris and permanetly blurred vision (which his father claimed sunk him into a depression that result in him killing himself in drunk driving incident) as a result of the padding being almost completely removed from Resto’s glove by Panama Lewis. A great night for boxing turned into another black-eye for boxing. Thankfully, nothing actually happened Saturday. If an attempt was made, punish Margarito….but coming from a guy who remembers June 16,1983, I’m glad it never got any further than the dressing room….It does however make you wonder about July 26,2008.
January 26th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
To Ricky-Roe
You may be right, I don’t think Evangelista is a great trainer. Being the tumultuous relationship Cotto has with him, I still don’t know why he stayed with him after that loss.
To Large
I agree, the excuse that Margarito’s camp gave out sounded like a load of shit. I know it isn’t right to say he’s guilty just yet, but the evidence is pretty stacked against him right now.
January 26th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Could this be an “Emperor with no Clothes” moment? The audaciousness of loading gloves in these days of subjecting the wraps to inspection is unbelievable. Could Nazim just have been the first to demand a re-wrap? Could Evangelista Cotto be to “green” to even consider that Margs’ wraps looked too big? That “prepared gauze” bullshit excuse leads me to think there is something to hide and that Margs’ camp got caught with its pants down.
January 26th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Just from piecing all of the different sources together, it sounds like Nazim called for a re-wrap because they were taping above the knuckle – which is against the rules in most jurisdictions. When he called for a rewrap in Hopkins-Trinidad it was because Tito was putting tape directly on the knuckle which is another no-no. More than likely, making them rewrap is more psychological than anything but in this case, it may have paid more dividends.
Reading the explanation from the Margarito people, I’d be surprised if something is not amiss. I’ve watched hands get wrapped – including my own – hundreds of times. I’ve never heard of preparing gauze strips weeks in advance, nor have I ever heard of applying wet gauze. Most times trainers cut the tying gauze strips that go between the knuckles right in the locker room before the fight. This sounds really fishy – almost like they were trying to make plaster knuckles.
I was involved once with a fighter whose trainer used to use two different kinds of tape on the fighters hand. The first type of tape went underneath and it was a heavy and hard tape. A lighter more conventional tape was put on top. Apparently, the trainer believed that the harder tape made the fighter’s hand almost like a cast. The Texas commissioner caught him doing this and made him rewrap using only the conventional tape. I wasn’t aware that he was doing this until the Texas commish pointed it out. It’s rare that the commissioners do catch these things.
Everyone is trying to get an edge – having a slightly harder substance under a glove than the usual gauze and tape might give you an advantage. All I know is that the three instances in big fights that I can recall (I’m sure there are more) where a fighter had to rewrap – that fighter lost everytime (Margs, Tito and Hamed). And the beat goes on . . .
January 26th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I had a question. On saturday night they announced that there would be a big story during the first round. When the fight started they broke the story about the hard stuff in the wraps. Did they intentionally wait so as not to change the betting lines? In another article the Rooster said he changed his call because Margs looked rundown (forget if this was the exact words) in the prefight interview, and he mentioned the foriegn substance in the wraps. Did anybody have this story before the fight began?
Thank in advance.
P.s. – Jerry Ferrara is “Turtle”… “E” is played by Kevin Connely. I saw B-Hop standing through most of the fight, but couldn’t see either Entourage cast member even after watching the fight two more times.
Last thing – I should be covered for the near future with 2/14 and 2/28 on HBO, is there a dive bar in Philly where I can watch pay-per-view? Anybody???
January 26th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Thanks for the shout out, Large. Keep up the good work.
January 26th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
My bad on the Entourage actors. Not my beat. They announced the celebs before the fight and Ferrara was the only Entourage name I recognized, and then I saw the dude that I know is E and I put two and two together. Wrongly.
He’s there, though, all over the main shot. He was wearing glasses. I didn’t see Turtle but I guess he was there too. I wasn’t seeing the HBO feed, I was seeing the top rank feed in the press box, but… It was definitely him. Black glasses.
I doubt HBO held the story because of gambling. Don’t think the news would have affected the lines anyway. Not like people were favoring Margs cause they knew he had his gloves loaded.
And Rooster was kidding. He put that comment up after the eighth round.
January 26th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Oh and great stuff Kurt – always good to hear your take. Am I remembering wrong or was the whole Tito thing started cause Nazim went in and one of Tito’s gloves was already on? And don’t you usually have a rep watch the whole wrap job? Or do you just sign off on the wrap after looking at it?
January 27th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Fred $,
Not a dive bar, but Paddywacks on Welsh Rd. and the boulevard usually gets all the boxing and MMA PPV’s and doesn’t charge a cover or anything.
January 27th, 2009 at 10:24 am
mark walhberg was sitting behind b-hop and hopkins kept standing up and yelling through out the fight. you could tell walhberg was getting annoyed at hopkins.
January 27th, 2009 at 10:45 am
ok seriously.
its been days.
no Fedor talk?
i mean he fought a guy trained by freddie roach.
thats close to boxing.
January 27th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Well it’s been over 48 hours since the CSAC took Antonio Margarito wraps…what could possibly be holding up the results? It’s not some extensive DNA test. It’s about as simple as it gets. Was there something other than tape/gauze on the wraps or not? If there was, it almost doesn’t matter what, Margarito pays big. If not, clear him. It’s absurd that the CSAC has been completely silent as to what it’s holding.
January 27th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Thanks,Briks. I know where that is, and I’ll check it out.
January 27th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
with any glove controversy aside…can we admit margs is a fraud? by that i mean he was campaigning as an elite welterweight….and he isnt…many were fooled…many confused the ability to take punches as a skill…it is not…and its margaritos best and only attribute….i can only imagine how bad pbf woulda picked this guy apart and basically probably dominated on the level calzaghe did to lacy…i think its sad that arum is going to move on cotto/margs 2…he makes all the dough off this…how much money does this near death jewish man need? and where does this leave shane? whos left to fight? clottey? thats not exactly enticing financially and presents a risk…but really what else is there…floyd? nope…floyds waiting and hoping on the pacman…cause thats big money and easy pickings
January 27th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
ricky roe, I hope you are a near-death Jewish man. Otherwise, as dictated by tacitly understood rules of decorum, you are generally not entitled to point out that someone else is.
January 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
i am…so its all good
January 27th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
When I was watching the Mosley Margarito fight I couldn’t help but be reminded of the first Meldrick Taylor Julio Cesar Chavez fight in March of 1990. If you remember Chavez was undefeated Mexican fighter and the baddest fighter on the planet (Tyson lost that title a couple months earlier in Japan). Everyone was expecting a close fight with Chavez wearing down Taylor late. What happened, for those of you too young to remember, was the same thing that happened Saturday night…almost. Taylor won just about every round except the last two, then got robbed when referee Richard Steele stopped the fight with 2 seconds to go!!! Two seconds!!!! As I watched Mosley, I thought of that fight, but Sugar Shane closed the show…Meldrick still put on one of the great performances of all time. He made a great fighter look pretty ordinary. Shane made a very good fighter look ordinary this past weekend. Don’t believe that Margarito is a “fraud” because Mosley made him look bad. I doubt too many others out there could do what Mosley did.
January 27th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Large – I think you’re right re: Tito. One hand was already wrapped and gloved. Then when Tito Sr. started rewrapping, they noticed that he was applying tape to knuckle and he had to redo that.
You send a rep over to look at the whole process of wrapping the hands. As I said it’s rare for a state athletic commission rep to notice anything funny because they are usually not the brightest or most knowledgable. Nazim has now been involved in two of these – it definitely pays to have knowledgable cornermen who are not afraid to call for a rewrap.
January 27th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Yeah, I’d say Margarito is a fraud. But I suppose that makes Paul Williams, Josh Clottey, and Miguel Cotto all frauds also. Gotta love boxing. The one sport where a loss means not only the end of your career (to some), but turns everything you’ve ever done previously in the sport into rust.
January 27th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Who wants to rank the welterweights?
1) Mayweather
Cintron
2) Mosley
3) Cotto
4) Wiliams
5) Margarito
6) Berto
7) Clottey
9) Collazo
10) Quintana
Oh my.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I don’t know about Mayweather as the top welterweight. He barely beat Oscar, and we just saw how little Oscar had left. He let a small, mediocre fighter in Hatton, who didn’t even belong in the 147 weight class, push him around and win many rounds before catching him…I just don’t see him beating Williams, Cotto, Mosley…he doesn’t match up well with Margarito(Money Mayweather doesn’t hit like Sugar Shane either)..he’d have real trouble with all these top guys. Size matters. Floyd knows this, that’s why he waiting for a winner in the Pacquiao Hatton fight. He wants nothing to do with the top welterweights.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
1. Mosley
2. Cotto (he’s No. 1 if Margarito did cheat)
3. Clottey
4. Margarito
5. Berto
6. Collozo
7. Quintana
8. Collazo
9. Cintron
10. Hlatswayo
January 28th, 2009 at 1:20 am
whoa…before you guys get all up in arms about me calling margs a fraud…let me explain myself(even though i shouldnt have to cause i thought i did a decent job of that before the fight)
first of all ryan…dont lump me in with a blind hater that just wants to strip margs of everything because of an L…im not that fickle
let me recap…clottey= clottey was winning that fight before he hurt his hand…no question in my mind…before the 11th press row had the fight one card apiece and one card a draw…and clottey had been inactive for about 5 rounds…margs the beast couldnt take out a one handed fighter who was inactive(i wont hold that against him…clottey is good at blocking shots with his gloves and is probably one of the top 4 hardest guys to knock out in the game id say along with bhop james toney and shane)
he fights paul williams, a guy he doenst have big physical advantages over…and loses a UD
he fights cotto…is getting basically torn a new one…and finally wears down a much smaller guy who doesnt have a solid gameplan(a solid one being the one shane had and the balls to execute it)..cotto wouldnt go to the body or really sit on his punches…he beat up a smaller guy
fights shane-gets humiliated
im sorry guys…i have no agenda against margs…but it seems you people act like being able to take more blunt force trauma, than the average fighter, is some sort of skill…its not a talent…and margs shouldnt really be labeled an elite fighter…he has nothing else…he can hit pretty good(doesnt have real one punch ko power)…but ummm what else does he do well? brad?…basically if you dont give him the room/space to get off his shots…they dont do much…and cotto fell right into his hands by backing up and letting him get off…pwill had his best moments in the pocket and clottey did his best in there too(i mention that i know cotto doesnt watch film…does anyone know if evangelista does or doesnt)..it was cottos fatal mistake…cotto basically did everything wrong you could do against margs…maybe im being a bit harsh by calling him a fraud…i dunno…dont really care…im sorry guys if you really wanted to believe in this guy..it seems like thats the case…most of you really wanted to believe in this guy…but its there…hes just not really good
January 28th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I watched the HBO broadcast for the first time last night. First of all, for you dudes who didn’t see E from Entourage, you’re blind. He’s right to Bernard’s right, in the row behind him. And yes, he’s sitting right next to Mark Wahlberg. THe time that I was referring to originally, when he’s laughing at Bernard, I realized he’s actually laughing because Bernard keeps jumping up in front of Wahlberg. It’s sort of funny to imagine – you’re Mark Wahlberg, the mack of macks, and yet how the hell are you going to tell Bernard Hopkins to sit down at a Golden Boy fight?
Ricky, I think you’re overstating the case considerably. Margs is more than a punching bag – he’s also in the past had astonishing endurance and workrate. In short, he’s the epitome of the Mexican Warrior – he wills his victories with epic wherewithal and hard work. Granted, that doesn’t make him Sugar Ray Leonard, but I certainly would compare him to Marvin Hagler. And the Haglers of the world are always more exciting and beloved to core boxing fans than the Sugar Rays. A lot of people criticized Hagler in his prime in the same way you critcize Margs – one-dimensional, almost beaten by the Clotteys/Mugabis of the world. But when a guy of average skill manages to compete at an elite level on sheer moxie and immunity to pain, he ends up getting movies made about him (see Bull, Raging).
Plus, how can you diss him for having a tough time with Clottey and losing to PWill (where, I might add, though I agree that he lost, if it was a 15-round fight, PWill was going down)? Do you think Shane or Cotto get by Clottey right now easily? Clottey/Shane might happen this spring, and that’s even odds in my book. Clottey is a bad mofo. And Williams, Jesus, any of these guys who fights PWill at 47 is going to have a tough out in front of them. Based on the size diffferential alone, it’s very hard for me to imagine Cotto beating PWill.
And I will add this – and I don’t want to take anything away from Shane, because after watching the fight again on TV I was doulby amazed at what he managed to accomplish in there. But I still think that the Margs who beat Cotto might have beaten Mosley. Let’s just leave the loaded gloves thing aside for now, cause… it’s just a hornet’s nest and I don’t want to say anything else about it until there’s some official ruling on the case. But Margarito looked weak to me in there from the opening bell. Shane fought him the right way, and Shane is probably stronger on the whole than Cotto, but Margs was not strong in there. He was very thin, gaunt, washed-out looking. The way Shane was manhandling him around the ring was insane. Weight-cutting is a huge issue in this game, and I think it has played a major role in both of our recent upsets – Pac/Oscar and now this. Oscar made the mistake of thinking that he could become a true welterweight again, and his body didn’t like it one bit. And Margs, for the first time in his career, I gather, really ballooned up and cut himself back down (to the tune of 30-35 pounds if the reports are to be believed) very quickly to 47 where his body, given his age and frame, really doesn’t want to be.
And to my eyes, it showed. Think about Roy Jones, the classic case. These guys are dominant at a weight and they stay there, and then for some reason they go up and try to come back down, and they’re fucked.
In conclusion, it’s not that I think that Margs wasn’t worthy of this level before – he proved that in my book in the Cotto win, which, whatever you make of Cotto’s gameplan, that was an amazing victory over a great fighter. But I do wonder if Margs is going to be able to fight at this level again. He asked a lot of his body at this weight, and if he’s weak there now, he will not be able to win fights anymore in his accustomed fashion. Because, as you so joyfully point out, he is not possessed of an awe-inspiring skillset outside of his powers of endurance.
January 28th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I’d love to hear what Jake LaMotta or Marvin Hagler would have to say to your argument that being able to take a punch doesn’t mean shit.
And how are you not stripping everything he’s done by calling him a fraud? That’s the exact word you used ricky. And you diminish everyone else he’s fought, some of whom are real killers.
Clottey is one of the top welters in the world right now, a guy who no one else w/ anything to lose wants to fight and a guy, who for the 100th time, Margarito beat. Clottey wasn’t the only fighter who was fighting hurt in that fight bro. But why bother mentioning that?
Williams won a very narrow UD over Tony in a fight in which a good portion of the boxing scribes sitting ringside called for AM, and some who had it a draw. But I suppose P-Will is just a step above a fraud now.
Cotto, well, Cotto must be a complete and utter bum by your reasoning.
Again, I’ll fully admit that Margarito stunk up the joint against Shane, for reasons that we might not know until he fights again. Maybe he took too many shots to the dome (you do know he turned pro at 15 right?), or maybe he caught up to the wrong guy just as Cotto did last summer. Time will tell, but to label him and all of his accomplishments in such a dismissive way shows that you do have at least a little bit of blind hate when it comes to the guy.
January 28th, 2009 at 11:28 am
The Rooster is wondering something after reading everyone’s opinion.
First, a few people have brought up the Meldrick Taylor fight and saying he got a robbed by Richard Steel. Have you seen Meldrick now? How about him pissing blood after the fight? The poor guy took a beating and he’s never been the same.
Then now let me bring in Chico (RIP CHICO) and Jose Luis Castillo. We all remember how brutal that fight was for both fighters. Who can say either fighter was really the same after?
Now lets go back to the remarks made after the Cotto v. Margs fight by Large (I’m paraphrasing here and not sure I have the paraphrase correct): Margs looked pretty beat up after the fight and puffy around the face.
With that being said, The Rooster sits here wondering… Maybe that Cotto fight took a lot out of Margs. Not taking anything away from Shane. As I said in previous posts, I think Shane beat Cotto and broke Cotto down mentally just like Margs did…Margs was just able to connect with a few more punches at the end to send Cotto down.
The Rooster not going to call anyone who steps through the ropes a fraud. I grew up boxing and it never an easy thing knowing you are going to get hit hard by the across the ring. There is nothing too fraudulent about that reality.
The Rooster picked Margarito. Shane showed up and he looked like a young 25 years old. He fought a great fight and out muscled Margarito on the inside. All due respect to the new king of the division: Shane Mosley.
The Rooster
PS I thought that was bullshit to bring up the problems with his wife before the fight. No man must get into another man’s personal life…esp. before a fight. But I do love me some Larry…funny guy.
January 28th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
rooster…please dont start insinuating that im calling a fighter a fraud in that sense…im saying that he campaigns as an elite welter..and he isnt…thats all
and large…i agree…those kind of fighters will always endear themselves to fans…i understand that point without you having to bring it up
either im a very shitty at writing(this is certainly very likely) and getting my point across…or ryan isnt very good at reading…because im touting clottey(you guys dont need to tell me how good and dangerous clottey is…i know) and pwill as A caliber welters…same with cotto…and im not trying to diminish everything those guys have done…im saying…margs belongs below them…i swear i have nothing against margs…i cant really prove it to you…so you can take my word or not..im just saying…i think people wanted a new hero to believe in…he did give us a great night last summer…i just think everything aligned for him that night….more than it was his ability to beat elite fighters
and large i hear you about the weight and somebody like roy…same thing happened to chris byrd when he tried to go to light heavy and got duffed out by shaun george…but there is a difference…roy went up in went weight and put on muscle and then tried to retransform his body…margarito was most likely just being lazy and eating…which i have to say, at the risk of sounding like i have an agenda against margs, is pretty irresponsible….for a guy whos waited so long…to make his breakthrough…to get some real money…for a guy who said he wanted it so bad…
i just think in general..im just a bit disenchanted by fans some times…one minute its just “oh well shane looked like crap against mayorga he might be just about done blah blah margs walks through him”…then the next day its “shane turned back the clock..he looked great…wow…props”…i dunno..is it just that simple?
January 28th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Well I’m saying that Taylor was robbed. The fight was stopped with 2 seconds to go. He was well ahead on all cards and no one knew he would be pissing blood afterward. As far as taking a beating, I’d argue that he was the giving a beating right up until the final moments of the fight. He got put down, got up, the crowd was going nuts, he looked to his corner and Steel stopped it. It was bad. A good official should understand the situation. There was no need for Steele to try to spare Taylor from more damage because there was only 2 seconds left!!! Chavez didn’t even have time to hit him again. But that’s boxing. It’s very unpredictable and improvisational. At it’s best boxing brings out the innate bravery and nobility of the fighters. Each has distinct characters that appeal to tough, hardworking people like ourselves. All of the boxers problems are right in front of him and he can’t hide. The paradox of boxing is humans place themselves at mortal risk, which should make the sport ugly, yet it’s artful and almost jazz like when it’s done properly..like Taylor vs Chavez.
January 28th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Ricky, you posted before the fight a quote from Nazim where he said that nobody should tear down Margarito if Shane beats him. That he’s a monster now and would be afterward too. Again, your words, not my shitty reading.
Maybe I’m just a bit disenchanted by fans who diminish what these guys do in that ring. If it’s your opinion that Margarito sucks, fine. But what myself and I think others are trying to say is that if he’s not elite, then who the fuck is? You can’t tout Cotto, Williams, and Clottey as “A level fighters” if AM is simply ordinary. And other than Mayweather who’s as of now retired, and Mosley, there isn’t anyone else out there.
Shane did turn back the clock and look great, which is part of the reason this sport is the illest. Why be so cynical and shit all over what he did last Saturday night by calling the guy he beat a fraud?
Oh, by the way, did you have a friend in Tony’s camp who told you he was being lazy and eating, or was that just a non-agenda formed opinion?
January 28th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
ryan..i think you should look into that quote from nazim a little deeper…and maybe go back and read larges prognostification threads…he even mentioned how confident shane and his team were sounding…he even said it was “bernardesque” or something like that….the fact that they were talking so boldly before the fight to me shows that they knew they were in there with a one dimensional guy and that they easily knew how to tear it down and had the fighter equipped to do it…i think yer taking the nazim quote a bit to literally…and i dont think it was meant in such literal terms
” Recently, Margarito’s manager openly admitted that he has worried about the time that Antonio spent partying during his well-publicized victory lap after the Cotto fight. “It’s always shown when he’s out of the ring for a while, â€
that was taken from larges 2nd prognositfication piece…can i safely assume that “partying” includes being “lazy and eating”??? i think i can….so with that im going to say that he was pretty irresponsible…
listen i will say one more time…i have no agenda against margs…if you go back deep and look at the pieces and comments…i even took you up on your 11th round prediction and put 100 on the 10th and 11th…i was out of my seat that night yelling in excitement when he was whooping cotto…i totally understand what yer saying…about what makes this sport the illest….but me personally…sometimes i try to look a bit deeper…because most people had written off shane because of mayorga…and all of the sudden he just beat the piss out of boxings new darling? theres more to it than shane just finding the fountain of youth
again..i cant help but look at the way shane and his camp talked before this fight…like they just knew what they were about to do…like they knew shane was finally the one who wasnt gonna let margs off the hook(i keep thinkin back to denny green “we knew who they were”)…clottey, pwill, and cotto all have some boxing skills…margs…i cant think of one he has…if you want to put heart and ability to take a punch as skills…i guess he has two…but not much else
id say it would be a big mistake to take on cotto at msg before the puerto rican day parade…and if he were to lose that one…itd be just about over for him…only two fights removed from becoming one of the newest shining stars in boxing?
January 28th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
The California State Athletic Commission is investigating hand wraps originally on the fists of Antonio Margarito prior to his loss Saturday night to Shane Mosley.
Margarito
The two pieces of gauze allegedly had a “plaster-like substance” on them. The CSAC expects results “promptly,” according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.
The commission forced Margarito to rewrap his hands after Mosley’s trainer, Nazim Richardson, reviewed the original wraps and found them to be too thick. Extra pads and the harder substance were found. The hands were rewrapped, and Margarito suffered a ninth-round TKO.
Richardson said the wraps were doctored in a “deliberate” manner, according to the New York Post.
Richard Schaefer, Mosley’s promoter, told the Times that “it’s more than additional gauze, that’s not a good thing to say. There was a white pad with a substance that was a grayish, concrete color on it. The thing is, you wonder now how many times he did it before.”
Todd duBoef, president of Margarito promoter Top Rank, said he believed the commission only took “additional gauze.”
“He’s tainted everything he has done,” Hall of Fame trainer and HBO broadcaster Emanuel Steward told the New York Post. “Now you’ve got a situation where every fighter that he has fought is wondering, ‘Did he do that to me?’ I hate this happened because it makes it where there are questions about everybody he has fought.”
i can only imagine what the fuck we can say about him if this shit comes to light
January 28th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I think that while many of us would like to put aside the gloves issue until a ruling is made, I for one am guilty of prematurely condemning Margs to 2nd tier status because without Cotto’s loss, I don’t think there would be much debate as to who the #1 Welterweight would be. I am now (prematurely, again) beginning to doubt Marg’s win over Cotto, and without that win, Mosely would have never had the chance to strut his stuff over Margs last week.
Its my belief that because a seed of doubt has been added to this whole division, that it is inevitable that fans will continue the bi-polar love/hate of the fighters in this division. I also wonder how many previous glove-loaders are watching this, realizing that the jig is up, and if this will save lives of 5th tier fighters we’ll never hear about because the increased awareness.
January 28th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I’ve always thought it was a mistake, after a huge megafight, to come right back and fight someone else that’s extremely strong. Roberto Duran beat SRL in June of 1980 and became Godlike to the people of Panama, much like Margarito did after beating Cotto. Roberto, of course, partied with glorious abandon after Montreal and gained anywhere from 40-60 lbs. Carlos Eleta foolishly let him get back in the ring with a now hungry and motivated Leonard a mere 5 months after Duran’s huge win…the rest, well you all know what happened next. It might have been wise for Margarito’s people to let him get “hungry” again before putting a fighter like Mosley in front of him. I guess if you follow this line of reasoning, Pacquiao might be in trouble against Hatton. If the betting line is right, I may just test this theory out….
January 28th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
brad…right now hatton is around the +195/200 range…interesting to see how this line is by fight time….cause youll have most boxing fans/bettors probably backing pac…and then the brit money comes in….so maybe..that line just might not end up not moving much at all
January 28th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
just wanted to get off this subject for a minute
kurt is the guy that works with giovanni lorenzo right? kurt if yer reading…maybe you could shed some light on this for me
lorenzo is fighing an ibf elimnator in february right? if he were to win this hed be top guy for abrahams ibf crown no? what is this possibility of arum setting up a pavlik/duddy abraham/lorenzo bill at msg this summer…with the idea that it sets up a big ppv matchup between pavlik and abraham later in the year? i know that would be getting ahead of yourselves and all…but has there been any discussion about that?
January 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
All of this discussion about who is elite and who is not at 147 makes me think of something Smoke Gainer said at a press conference one time. A reporter asked him what weaknesses he was going to exploit on Chris John. Gainer said that every fighter has weaknesses, including himself, and that it was just about trying to hide yours and exploit the other guys.
Every fighter in the top ten at 147 has strengths and weaknesses, it all depends on how they match up with whom they’re fighting. Like the old axiom goes, styles make fights. Margarito looked like a world beater against Cotto and Cintron – not so much against PWill and Mosley. Mosley looked great against Margarito in LA but what if he fought him in MS and drew the same referee that took points from Berto for not so excessive holding of Collazo. Once Berto had to fight three minutes a round, he looked really vulnerable. Take away the ability to clinch Margarito and I think it would have been a different fight with Mosley. There at least would have been a chance for Margs to wear him out like he did Cotto.
I wouldn’t write Margarito off just yet – though he did take a frightful beating. He proved he could tool Cintron twice, maybe he’s just the wrong matchup for Cotto as well.
My top 10 at WW:
1. Mosley
2. PWill
3. Margarito
4. Cotto
5. Clottey
6. Quintana
7. Berto
8. Judah
9. Collazo
10. Cintron
I don’t rate Pacquiao at 147 yet, not until he fights there again.
January 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I am with Large in that I don’t want to comment on Margarito’s glove thing any more until the results are out. In the meantime, I’m going to assume Margarito innocent (but somewhat exposed) and list my top 10 Welters. My criteria is that I’m including anyone who can reasonably fight there (including Mayweather, not including Hatton), and that I am basing them on who I think would have the best record against the rest of the top 10, NOT on what they’ve accomplished at the weight. Without further ado:
1.) Mayweather- I still think he beats anyone at this weight, size notwithstanding.
2.) Shane Mosley- This might not last too much longer, but right now I think he is 2nd and would beat Cotto in a rematch.
3.) Paul Williams- Just too big for most guys at this weight
4.) Manny Pacquiao- I think Williams would be too big for him, but I think he could squeak out a victory over Cotto or Margarito with his speed
5.) Antonio Margarito- Hard to rank him behind Cotto unless we find out he definitely cheated against Shane. (I don’t mind ranking Shane above Cotto because his wasn’t a devastating loss)
6.) Miguel Cotto- Seems low for him, but I can’t justify ranking him above any of those guys based on the criteria I’m using
7. ) Josh Clottey- The fact that he’s this low speaks to the depth of the division. I think he’s a monster and maybe better than the next few guys ahead of him but he hasn’t proved it with a signature win.
8.) Andre Berto- I would love to see him against Mosley or Cotto. Basically I just love watching him against anyone
9.) Luis Collazo- I had him winning against Berto by 1 point (basically a draw minus the holding penalty) but I think Berto would beat him in a rematch.
10.) Carlos Quintana- He might be able to beat some of these guys on a good day (like he did against Williams), which is a great compliment.
January 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
” Mosley looked great against Margarito in LA but what if he fought him in MS and drew the same referee that took points from Berto for not so excessive holding of Collazo. Once Berto had to fight three minutes a round, he looked really vulnerable. Take away the ability to clinch Margarito and I think it would have been a different fight with Mosley. There at least would have been a chance for Margs to wear him out like he did Cotto.”
oh jesus…am i really reading this? margs wasnt beating shane in any city saturday night…even if the mayor of tijuana was the 3rd man in there…lol
January 28th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Well that’s two lists of the top welterweights that has Floyd number 1. I don’t see it that way at all. In the past two years Floyd has went 12 rounds Zab Judah(no big deal) went 12 rounds with Carlos Baldomir, went 12 rounds and split against Oscar, and got a bit roughed up before stopping the little Brit Hatton in 10….certainly nothing to make me think Floyd is anything other than what I always thought he was…a very good boxer who has managed to create this myth about himself-mainly that he’s the best fighter in the world. He’s not. He’s a self-promoter. He’s the T.O. of the boxing world. A diva. Floyd would lose to 3 or 4 of the best welterweights if he ever had the inclination( or balls) to fight them…but he won’t. He knows. He’ll wait for the Manny or Ricky…then drag us all through the drama of should he fight again, then fight Manny, then retire again.
January 28th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
daaaaaamn, 57 comments… is this a record?
but brad, how did floyd get even a bit roughed up by hatton? he murdered hatton! hatton rushed him all fight and he didn’t come close to landing 100 punches in that fight if my memory serves me.
i think mayweather is a beast… i hate how it seems he ducks the biggest fights, but i mean, i can’t be mad at him. if he can get philthy rich/young fly and flashy fighting gattis and baldomirs and turn those into PPVs, he’s doing something right.
the dude might have the best handspeed, the best defense, and the most precise punching in the game. or he DID… let us not forget he’s retired and ballooned up to 200+ lbs. and has a tribal tattoo around his eye. that boy ain’t getting back in the ring ever again. after that press release he sent out? yeah, floyd is finito.
January 28th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
As an elder estates man of this site (I was here before we went to this format and were on simple blog format…those of you remember the change over…Oh the ups and downs), The Rooster enjoys the dialogue that is going on here. Yet, in the end, we are all lovers of the things this site covers and we are lucky to have I-Berg and Large jump in on our debates. Seriously, what other sites does that? Not to mention, if you reach out to say hello they will get back to you which is rather dope. Not always the same day of but somewhere down the line your question will be answered.
So what is The Rooster rambling about?
We are all not going to agree on points of discussion and fights. Just like we all aren’t going to agree who is the best P4P fighters. But for the record, there is no better P4P list than The Rooster’s…Holla!
But lets be respectful and not let this site get like those other sites where people yell crap at one another. Not saying that this is happening here, but lets just make sure and remember that this is a dope site with some ill writers and ill people chipping in…lets keep it that way.
Also remember that we might all be running into one another soon enough at a fight or a NoMas gathering where I’m sure we will all sit and have some cold beers together and enjoy some lively discussions of boxing.
Where is our soccer guy? Is he ever going to cover the whole Becks thing going on? Holla!
January 29th, 2009 at 5:30 am
Well Geegz I respect your opinion on Floyd and I think I may be the one in the minority thinking he’s not nearly as good as legend had it…as far as the Hatton fight goes, Hatton applied pressure early and made PBF uncomfortable to the point I had the fight close after 8 rounds (I thought the point deduction in the 6th was bullshit, Hatton hit the rope not Floyd). I guess my point is, scoring aside, Ricky Hatton is a guy a great welterweight should have out of there in about 5-6 rounds. He comes in, stands pin straight, has zero head or upperbody movement, etc. A “great” welterweight would kill a guy like Hatton, who is undersized and easy to hit. I hate to always go back to the welterweight glory days but look at Leonard vs Davey Boy Green on youtube sometime. That’s what a great welterweight does to a Brit that has little game. I respect you opinion on Floyd, I just don’t buy what he’s selling us.
January 29th, 2009 at 6:09 am
I like talking boxing with younger fans, which my guess is everyone on this site is younger than me, but it does point out certain generational differences. When Geegz say “I can’t be mad at Floyd be cause he is getting philty rich/young fly and flashy fighting gattis and baldomirs…he doing something right”…well that’s where we disagree. Me and the old-timers that I call friends who have followed boxing for decades now hate the “self-promoting, play it safe, get paid, businessman style” of the modern day. We like the old days when guys like Duran, Hagler, Hearns fought anyone and everyone without trying to manipulate things to their advantage. Take Duran. He had fought 17 years as a pro before taking on Hearns. 17 years!!!That’s longer than Oscar has fought. Duran was 6″ smaller than Hearns, gave up an astounding 12″ reach and was facing this freak of nature (Hearns) who was just reaching his prime. But he didn’t care, he said make the fight. He got his ass beat, but that spirit was RIGHT. Duran didn’t tell his manager to find a smaller opponent who didn’t hit hard who Duran could look “flashy” fighting and make some PPV money and play it safe. Duran did the UNSAFE thing…That I respect. That attitude is what inspires me…not the Floyd “I’ll wait for and easy opponent and avoid the tough one” Mayweather’s attitude.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:33 am
rooster…i hear ya
love this place…and no disrespect is ever intended
January 29th, 2009 at 10:12 am
I just read where the CSAC suspended Margarito and his trainer for the “foreign concrete like susbstance” found in his wraps. To play devil’s advocate, could Margarito’s mellow behavior in the ring Saturday night, possibly be attributed to the fact that he just got caught red-handed and knew he was up Shit’s Creek? From my extensive viewing of the trash tv show COPS, I know criminals always fight hard until they are caught and then almost always become passive. It’s weird but after watching the fight again last night, Margarito looked like a thief that just got caught on a bad tv show….just a thought.
January 29th, 2009 at 11:00 am
seriously,
i need to read
1. Lance Comeback Article
2. Bend it Beckham post
3. a MMA post
4. Superbowl Post
January 29th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Word to Rooster. This time next week our archives are going to work again too. Hah! That’ll be some shit. The final stage of recovery form the changeover.
Fellas I just spoke to Large and he is on the handwrap story in a major newsbreaking type way. Sounds like that piece is going to be on HBO. Hopefully we hear from the man soon.
January 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Brad,
I hear you on a lot of what you are saying. I remember when Danny “Little Red” Lopez use to fight down in the LA Forum back in the day and take on people he was over his head with. But he always gave a great account of himself and we use to go nuts over his ring entrance back in the day. Wow….that just took be back a second. I always had a problem with the whole jumping of weights after you beat a soft guy for a side belt and call yourself a champion of that weight division. Oscar never fought Kostya Tszyu when they were both pretty much at their peak. A lot of those fights aren’t made anymore. Yet, I’m sitting here wondering how all those fights were made back in the day: Duran, Hagler, Thomas “THE MOTOR CITY KING KOBRA” Hearns and Ray Leonard. It was just guys saying, I want to be the baddest man on the planet. Period. Even Duran when he dissected Iran “The Blade” Barkley at the ripe age of 38 and took fight of the year honors and he was pretty much washed up…so they said, in some way that rings like Sugar Shane. Interesting. But Brad…baby you are in the year of the bling…you need that bling for the pinkey ring. Holla!
January 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I know I feel like Randy the Ram sometimes…stuck in the 80′s. I’m trying to get into the “bling culture” but wearing “bling” in my day was behavior that put you in jeopardy…it’s hard to change.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I love it when Randy is at the bar and he starts rocking and says, Fuck Kurt Koban…haha!
June 7th, 2009 at 3:52 am
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